Every generation has a small group of young fiction writers who make it. And for decades, almost every ten years, they were all straight white men.
Philip Ross. Norman mailer. John Updike. Jonathan Franzen. Jonathan Saffron Foy. You get the photos.
But that has changed over the past decade or so. The promising authors who captured the buzz and dominated the list of critics were mostly women. Think Sally Rooney or Emma Klein or Ottessa Mossfeg. And when men break through, they are usually not young, straight or white.
It is worth pointing out that while women now publish more books than men now, men publish more books than ever before.
But the (relative) decline of the man in the letter led to a search for the tweets first, but is now increasingly debated in places like the New York Times and the Guardian. Why is the decline of young, white and male writers important? And what will you lose in this shift?
“We've seen a lot of great work being done to explain perspectives that have been excluded from literature for a long time,” said journalist and novelist Ross Barkan. I explained today Co-host Noel King. “But I think it's also important to know better and worse what men are doing in the 2020s.”
The Vulcan and King talked about how young men feel that they have been blocked from literary novels, what they think they have lost, and his experiences trying to publish fiction. His third novel, Glass Century, It was released earlier this month.
Below is a transcription of the conversation edited for length and transparency. Even if you get a podcast like Apple Podcasts and Spotify, listen to it all.
You wrote an essay called “A while ago, we're talking to you todayFrom misogyny to the land of humanity: The disappearance of modern literature. “What is your argument about that essay, Ross?
My point in that essay is that there is a shortage of men among young literary writers today. This does not mean there are no prominent male novelists under the age of 40. That's the cutoff I use with younger people, but historically it's not very good.
And most of today's well-known literary novel writers are women. I'm talking about the very specific type of fiction that is trying to compete for awards and are trying to compete for awards.
You are 35 years old and are you white?
I wonder if you are a lost male writer you wrote, like the driving force of this essay.
I think so, yeah, I certainly think I am few. So there was a time when there were many novelists like me, not Jews or Jews, certainly not white men.
I want to find your arguments very convincing. I was a teenager in the 90s and a young adult in the 2000s. That's when you read a lot of fiction, right? And I remember David Foster Wallace and Jonathan Saffron Foer…
And what you're saying actually tracks me. The question I have doubts is why. And I'll ask you first to answer the reason from your personal perspective.
You are a novelist. You are 35 years old. You are straight white – do you feel like those identities are somehow holding you back?
It's not the real world. In the real world, I have great privileges.
However, in the 2010s, the literary world was less interested in straight men. I think new fiction generally lacks a heterosexual male perspective. It has a long history of authors who portray toxic masculinity and rough male characters. And it feels like I'm not looking much today.
At the same time, I think young male writers, both white and non-white, had less interest in fiction. This is a challenge for chickens and greens. Is this the publishing industry that we decide that this is no longer something we're pushing or really interested in, or is it the power of the market?
So part of it is internal. There may be few people who want to be great novelists, but the publisher may say, “Hey, we're not very interested in the perspective of a straight white man.” When I approached a publisher for a novel Glass Centurydid you hear that?
I think you've heard it behind the scenes. You will never be told in your face. I'm not complaining – I don't consider myself a victim. I had a successful career. I'm very pleased with that.
But what do you hear behind the scenes?
Echoing Joyce Carroll Oh with some kind of infamous, but not wrong, sort of infamous, but not wrong tweets from agents and editors in the 2010s and early 2020s, a few years ago, and I paraphrased, but not wrong, was not much interested in straight male fiction. I want to spread it a little because you can see it among black, Hispanic, Asian straight men too – there are a few, [they’re] It's not very common.
And certainly, I think that since white men are no longer more common now, publishers of that era were generally trying to diversify. You had the politics of social justice, what they called “wake up,” and in a way you woke up because it spread things and brought about a new voice, but that's also the sum of zeros. A few will come out. Some go out. And for me, I observe that trend.
What do you think we will lose when we lose those young white men's perspectives?
That's a large part of the country. I think I'm doing a lot today with young men. White and non-white straight men – they are academically behind. They are becoming increasingly marginalized. They're getting more and more angry. They are becoming more and more online. And, in my opinion, fiction doesn't address all of it.
I agree with you, but I actually saw it in one book last year, rejection By Tony Tulathimutte. There were very online characters. The most praised story was about incel. The book was incredibly powerful. And that was praised, right? What do you think about that?
He is an incredible writer. Let's start from there. He is an incredible prose stylist. There is a short story I love about young Asian men who have these very stupid sexual fantasies about me dominating other men. Written fantasically – he is a kind of loss in our time in terms of his ability to whisk sentences.
But this is a warning that people seem to be afraid to point out. It's not a straight male fantasy. Did Tony write a straight-up male fantasy about the character wanting to subdue women in the way he wants to subdue men? Tony himself is straight. Living in a gay character was an interesting choice. That's nothing wrong. Writers should write about any sexuality. I don't believe in limiting someone like that.
But I thought that was a choice, right? Because the desires of straight men are very embarrassing. It's not easy to write. What do men think? Modern novels don't handle that well. A troublesome and troublesome man. Men who aren't – maybe they're good at heart, but they have a lot of bad thoughts. And they behave badly. You don't see that much in fiction today, I would argue.
Let's hear about the argument that many people may think they have in what you said, including many women.
Looking at statistics dating back to 1800, women account for about 5% of published authors. It was about 10% in the 1900s, and in 2015 women outperformed men. More women publish books than men. Both genders still publish a lot of books, but that should be said.
Do you have absolutely sympathy for the argument that you have your turn, attention, awards and admiration for centuries?
Yes, I'm certainly sympathetic. I think it's reasonable to believe it – that's an honest argument. The problem is hearing from people who say this isn't happening and I think it's very exhausting.
I think the truth is that it's time to rescale and turn the table. But there are winners and losers, right? The women were losing. Now the men are losing. Is there any comfort for a 26-year-old man who has to pay his past sins? Young male writers cannot sit at home and think, Well, goalie, it was a good Norman mailer and the John Update was a really great run.
Yes, I think I can balance, balance and ensure that a group of discriminated people have the time to be needed. My point is that you can't pretend there's no one who doesn't get what they want.
