The Second Trump administration has many protagonists. Of course, not only Donald Trump himself, but also Elon Musk, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and JD Vance.
Russell Vought does not create that list. The mildly spoken bureaucrat was recently confirmed to lead the Bureau of Management and Budget rather than exactly sexy posts. His name is not well known outside of policy circles.
But it probably should be.
“I think we can see the so-called government efficiency Elon Musk and Doge as the so-called government efficiency office,” said Simon Rabinovic, an economist editor of US economics. I explained today Co-host Noel King. “Musk is kind of overactivity, moving in every direction, every direction, but in the end… the person who really leads this is Lass' vaught. And he's the general. He's also a scholar. There is… As long as there is legal justification, this is something Las Vautu has been working on, and has been working on for years to the moment we are facing today.”
Rabinovic spoke to King about Vault's backstory, his Christian nationalist beliefs, and how he wants to take the country with him in the Second Trump administration. Below is a transcription of the conversation edited for length and transparency. Even if you get your podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or elsewhere, listen to the full episodes.
Vought has a blue-collar background. He has a large family and is the youngest of his seven children. He spoke about the upbringing of a very strong Christianity. He went to college at an evangelical Christian school. Part of the way he sees his role in government is not only trying to change the way the presidency is run, but also inject it into Christian nationalism, a self-defined ideology of his kind. This is all important, as it is something you are trying to do.
He spent many years on a Republican staff member in DC, working up the totem poles to become a key player in Trump 1.0. Currently, he is one of the few Trump 2.0 returnees. He has returned to the very role he was in at the end of Trump's first term: Director of Management and Budget. This is one of these institutions that many have never heard of, but in reality, you can wield great power and even more power in the hands of Russ Vought.
When Las Vaut says his politics are Christian nationalists. What does that mean?
The way he explains it is that he basically wants to bring Christianity into every aspect of society, especially government. It's not that he wants to abolish the separation between the church and the state, but he believes that Christianity is a formative fundamental influence in the way the American government operates, and that it has been stuck for too long. .
Christian nationalism not only gives him a kind of guide post in terms of his views on abortion, but also brings certain righteousness to the way he approaches his work.
Whatever President Trump did, this is one of the reasons why he stood by his side in Trump's first administration. He thought Trump was an important ally to promote his vision. You can hear it the way he is talking, you can read it the way he writes. And with these tones of justice it's kind of a change. He says, “The storm clouds are above us,” and “The obligation is ours, and the consequences are God.”
Christian nationalism is a truly, truly important motivational force for him.
I wondered about his speech. He's pretty mean. He spoke about his desire to hurt civil servants. Let them realize that no one likes them. If we were five, we would say, “That's not very good.” As we're old, “Don't talk about hurting people. That's not necessary.”
If you met him, and if I had a long conversation with him, it's really weird because he has this very academic attitude. He is always very buttoned and has a very nicely trimmed beard. He talks softly. But when you actually hear what he's saying, it's really very radical.
I think this really reflects the strength of his beliefs. This is something he really believes in. More than that, I think the way he speaks will help inspire the people he works with. he. He has a dedicated group of small allies who share his vision. He is not a transaction. He might say he is not corrupt. This is just what he really wants to do.
Donald Trump is notoriously known for his actions in many non-Christian behaviors. How did these two men come together?
When Vought was a young Republican staff member, he was very focused on bread and butter fiscal conservatism. But over the years he has become a Magazine-style way to look at government and ideology. And he was someone involved in Trump's transition team.
In 2017 there were no incredibly deep benches of the people lined up at Maga. Therefore, he was appointed to OMB. He was the assistant director. Eventually, in his final year he became director of OMB. I think Vought is that he sees Trump as a way to push his ideas. There he talks about the fact that all these anti-abortion politicians in the Republican Party did nothing, but it was Trump who was able to kill him, ultimately through the appointment of the Supreme Court. Roev. Wade. Vought sees Trump as a critical ally, even if he doesn't agree with him on days and on many issues.
For four years, Trump cars had stalled more or less. The president lost the 2020 election and was kicked out to Florida. What was Russ doing at the time?
At the end of Trump 1.0, the Trump team began to realize that this Las Votant guy was actually very powerful and had some ideas that could be useful in power.
Last year, when he ran the management and budget office, Vought was the one who wrote a note saying the federal government should stop all DEI training and critical racial theories. . It clearly became a very powerful trope for Trump in his recent election campaign.
And Vought was also a Schedule F architect, and the idea that essentially all career protections for civil servants could be removed.
With Trump away, Vought forms this organization, a center for renewing America, and essentially begins to create legal blueprints for the many actions we have seen in the past few weeks. The president has gained much more power than what is known as savings. I'm thinking about how to get back Schedule F and how to reduce civil servants.
And one way Vought was very involved in thinking through Trump 2.0 was that he was one of the driving forces behind Project 2025.
Donald Trump had nothing to do with Project 2025. He thought it was ridiculous and awful.
that's right. [Laughs.] Trump has denied on the campaign trajectory that Project 2025 has something to do with his future administration. But of course, as we saw, he appointed many people involved in drafting the project 2025.
Vought wrote a chapter on how to use the President's Executive Office in Project 2025 and was completely transparent to his intentions. He laid out a blueprint on how to use OMB, rock the civil servants, hurt it, shrink it, and push forward with very robust ideas. .
What does Russell Vought's plan to address that is planned to address all these lawsuits facing the Trump administration, which seeks to shut down their policies?
He's certainly not a dummy. He expects that attempts to restructure the presidency will end in the courts, and perhaps ultimately in the Supreme Court. I don't think he's afraid that the court will block his agenda. Rather, I think he hopes that the court is in jurisdiction to determine whether his interpretation of the law is correct. If he succeeded, he fundamentally redrawn the boundaries of presidential power, bringing America back to something like a late 19th century version.
